Just Rambling...

It seems fall here in Northeast Louisiana will last for part of one afternoon. Right now, at 2:24 p.m. it is 76 and the mosquitoes are slightly smaller than hummingbirds. The low tonight will be 64 and the low tomorrow night will be 30. I suppose we will have a Norther on its way to Texas.

The trees are short here put just as pretty as they can be. The colors are brilliant and will be gone in two weeks or so. I and my fire ants are healthy, my wife is on the mend. Although she will likely be back almost to normal in a few weeks, she has advised me that I will have to wait on her "hand and foot" for months. I am wise enough to not challenge her warning. She has done exactly that for me for years!

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The Democrats are crowing like young roosters, and I'll admit, it was a great victory for them. However, they really didn't beat the Republicans, the Republicans beat themselves. We conservatives only do well in elections when we "walk the talk". Only when we govern like conservatives to we do very well at the polls. We have largely failed in the White House and the Congress. With the exceptions of judges, tax cuts, and the war on terror (which are not to sneeze at by the way) our Republican friends, including President Bush, have been an embarrassing failure in my view. They have presided over runaway spending, have crated more entitlement programs, and have not done squat about our porous borders.

Now it is Nancy Pelosi's team at bat. Let's see how they govern. She is off to a poor start by any reasonable standard. I predict the Dems will eat their own by late next year. Hillary Clinton vs. Gov. Mitt Romney, how is that for a battle? I think Romney can win easily unless Ms. Pelosi and gang govern differently than they talk. And, we should be able to win control of the House and Senate again too. I hope we have learned some lessons.

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Because Israel did not perform as well as most of us expected recently, do not think that the same will be true if or when they take on Iran. Never doubt, Israel will not allow Iran to have a nuke. If Israel has to go completely alone, they will do it. They can make Iran as flat as a Wal-Mart parking lot in less than 48 hours if they choose.

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Well, I almost have my breath regular again after sitting at my desk for a few minutes. I have been up and down the stairs into the attic over a dozen times it seems bringing Christmas trees, decorations, and all the other necessary stuff to my wife who is quite well enough to bark commands like a Paris Island drill Sargent. (She is as sweet as honey..)

We in the Ogle family have the favor of God. What an incredible fact, GOD IS FOR US! If that is so, and it surely is, then "Who can be against us?" The answer is No thing, and No person. Our hope and security is in Jesus our Lord who reigns in our lives.

Merry Christmas!

Grace and Peace,

Royce Ogle

Tent Parking

Thanksgiving

“In everything give thanks” (I Thessalonians 5:18)

Today is Thanksgiving Day, a national holiday set aside for the purpose of encouraging our nation’s people to give thanks to the Creator God for our bounty. We, of all the earth’s millions should be profoundly thankful. Our most destitute are well off by the worlds standards.

Those of us Americans who are Christians have even more about which to be thankful. An ugly sinful past, sinful acts that are future, and an awful end in hell, have been erased by the grace of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. For this truth, I am deeply grateful.

Each of us could quickly create a great list of things, situations, and people for which we are thankful. Paul’s declaration of long ago in the 1st century was not as it sometimes quoted. The complete statement in verse 18 says, “In everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus toward you”. If your doctor has just given you the news that your tumor is cancer and you only have a few months to live, that is not something God expects you to be thankful for.

God does not want us to be thankful “for everything”, but to be thankful “in everything”, there is quite a difference. My wife is now in pain recovering from back surgery. I am not thankful that she is in pain, but I am thankful that she was afforded the opportunity to have some surgery needed to rid her of persistent pain she has suffered for years. Our moms are almost 85 and 86. Both are loosing their memories and are pretty feeble. I am not thankful about that. I am thankful that God has blessed my life with good women including these two.

For the past few days I have been a cook, housekeeper, and nurse. I am not thankful for that. I am thankful that I can care for a wonderful wife who usually waits on me hand and foot. I am thankful for that.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

Virgin Birth of Christ Part 2

Why the virgin birth of Christ? Part 2

In a previous post I asked the question, “Why did God choose that Jesus would be born of a virgin?” In this post I will answer that question.

Almost every list of essential doctrines for the Christian faith I have seen includes “the virgin birth of Jesus”, or “the deity of Christ”, along with the inspiration of the Bible, and others. Of course these lists vary, one of which I saw unbelievably did not include the bodily resurrection of Jesus which was at the heart of the Apostles preaching.

Just to be clear, these “essential doctrines” I would frame as ones Christians should embrace, they are not all necessary for sinners to believe in order to become Christians. Those 1st Century thousands who were saved in the first weeks after Pentecost had very little theological understanding. What they knew was what they had heard from eye witnesses of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, who claimed to be God.

The deity of Jesus stands or falls upon his birth to a virgin girl without having a human father. Had Jesus been the son of Joseph and Mary he would have been just like all other men, inherently sinful. But he was not like other men in that he uniquely had no human father.

I will not labor here to show the prophetic texts concerning his birth nor the gospel records of his birth and the events leading up to it. I will assume that all who read this post gladly accept the biblical record that Jesus was born of a virgin girl, Mary, who had not been with a man. The focus is why birth by a virgin?

1. There was no other way for God to interject himself into the human race. The creative act of God causing the virgin to conceive and bear a son naturally and supernaturally made the child the unique Son of God. He was Mary’s son and God’s son. He was not Joseph’s son. So, part of the plan was Immanuel “God with us”
2. There was no other way for Jesus to be a perfect sacrifice. When Adam sinned in the garden he died spiritually and eventually physically. Therefore the Bible says “By one man’s disobedience many were made sinners.” And “by one man’s offence death reigned”. Every descendent of Adam was born with a built in propensity to sin. He was by nature a liar, dishonest, disobedient, and capable of every sinful act. Jesus was not Adam’s descendent; He descended from God his father. He could not sin because while he was fully human he was also fully God. (God with us)
3. To become a perfect sacrifice he had to be not only sinless, but pure in every way. The physical body of Jesus was uniquely prepared by God. Hebrews 10 makes this clear. “ Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me”.(verse 5) And then also in that same chapter we learn that only the sacrifice of a body would be sufficient to once for all time take away sin. “Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them ” (which are offered according to the law), then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all”.(verses 8-10)
4. In this unique body, prepared by God, with no human father, Jesus was at once “the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world”, the great high priest who is able to make one offering for the sins of the worlds people of every age never to be repeated again. His was the body foretold by the prophets and according to their word not one bone was broken in the punishment of the crucifixion. On the cross Jesus declared “It is finished” and the anger of a Holy God against sin had been completely exhausted and his justice fully satisfied. Now by the blood of Jesus God can declare a sinner, who puts his faith in Jesus, righteous and do so without compromising his holiness and justice.

In the same way, we who are saved are the body of Christ. Because of His perfect sacrifice of a perfect body and the cleansing of His blood, we too are “blameless”, “perfected”, “without spot or wrinkle” in the sight of God. We are loved just as God loved the Lord Jesus and He sees us as if we had never sinned and as if we had perfectly obeyed.

It is not possible to overhaul, or to repair a sinner so that he meets God’s standard. No, there must be a new birth. There must be a new man whose desire is to please God. He is a man upon whose heart is written the law of God. It is that inner man who serves God. The sinner is dead in his or her sins and the perfect object lesson is seen in baptism. The old man goes into death with Christ and the new man is resurrected to serve and love the Lord Jesus and to glorify the Father through Him.

The universal body of believers is called “the bride of Christ”. She is a pure, perfect, chaste bride, whose will is to please the bridegroom. It is God’s purpose to present to Himself one day a perfect people made pure by the body and blood of Jesus who in His perfect doing and dying, perfect living and loving, offered Himself a perfect sacrifice once forever for the sins of every man and woman and sat down on the right hand of God.

At the resurrection, our mortal bodies will be changed, mortality will be swallowed up in immortality and our bodies will not have one microscopic hint of sin. We will at last be finally saved completely, freed from the very presence of sin.

None of this would have been possible had Jesus not been conceived by the Holy Ghost in the womb of a virgin girl. In a human body, God fulfilled the law and offered Himself to Himself to put away sin forever. Thanks be to God for the virgin birth of Jesus.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

The Virgin Birth of Jesus

Why did God choose that Jesus would be born of a virgin? Could he not have had Him born to Mary and Joseph and still live without sin? After all, He is God.

By all measures that I know of, the virgin birth is one of the essential and foundational facts about God's plan of redemption that is only denied by the most offensive unbelievers.

Why do you think it is so important?

Why did God plan it that way? Or, do we know why.

I am interested to see what you think.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

And such were some of you...

Last evening in a small group one of the young men said in part, "Well, I am just a sinner too." The context was how we as believers should interact with those who are not. I wanted to correct him, but quickly decided to do so would be unwise in that context while having a discussion about personal evangelism.

A common misconception is that those of us who are "born from above" are "just sinners too". We are not sinners but saints. Of course we all sin. As long as we inhabit flesh we will fall short of God's standard for righteousness. This sad fact is precisely why Jesus came.

"And such were some of you." In 1 Corinthians 6:11 Paul set the record straight. In the previous verses Paul discussed sinners such as fornicators, adulterers, thieves, drunkards, covetous, homosexuals, etc. and then said, "And such were some of you".

Paul and others are careful to speak of those ugly lifestyles in the past tense when referring to believers. Interestingly, in the following verses he warns with these words. "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.”17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s."

These truths are clear. We used to be sinners ("And such were some of you"). We have been changed by Christ (But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.") Even though we have been changed, we can still fall into sin. ("Flee sexual immorality")

We have been given a new identity. We are not "sinners", but are now "saints". Over 50 times in the New Testament, by several different writers, all inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, we who are saved are called "Saints". I was a sinner, by God's grace I am now a Saint.

Grace and Peace,

Royce Ogle

Musings on a chilly Thursday

My humming birds, who have faithfully entertained us for the summer, have headed off to South America. They will likely meet several thousand of their feathered fellows in Rock Port, Texas where they will feed like crazy and then its off for a 1500 mile, non stop flight to Mexico and then to South America. I will miss them until they return in mid April next spring.

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My wife and I have been blessed to work with an infant church in Bayou La Batre, Alabama for the past several months. The church grew out of an ongoing relief/rocovery effort for the people of the bayou area. They have had to overcome huge obsticles and yet they stay on the job, loving, building, cleaning, hugging, praying, and worshiping God. Both the church (Bayou La Batre church of Christ) and the recovery ministry (Bayou Recovery Project) needs help.

The church needs a building where thy can better meet the needs of their members and future members. They are now meeting in an Odd Fellows Hall and have no room for classes for the kids. They need a full time preacher. We have and are sending men from our church (Whites Ferry Rd coC) and other churches are doing the same until God sends someone to put down roots and stay and love the people. They are grace centered, love God, are committed to the Lordship of Jesus, and want to reach their neigborhood for Him.

The Bayou Recovery Project needs money and volunteers. They have groups scheduled but always need more. They need money for materials. They have done an amazing job with little resources. The driving force is two senior ladies. These ladies can out work anyone 40 years their junior. Their energy and excitement is contageous.

If you can help or want more information, email me at royce@ogle.net and I will get the info to them. They should have a website up in the next 2 weeks. If you can do nothing more, please say a prayer for them.

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I am in my 60th year and have been a disciple of Jesus for over 45 of those years. I am as thankful, excited, and humbeled as ever before. The most exciting part of my life is seeing God change people.

My wife and I facilitate a Grief Share group on Wednesday nights, she is the Ministry Coordinator of WFR Relief Ministry, I am a Realtor, sometimes preacher, Papa to 6 little people,

and follower of Jesus Christ. God is at work in every area of my life, and for that I am grateful.

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I have met some wonderful people through blogging. Thanks to those of you who have been kind with your remarks. For those of you have been unkind I will only say, at least have the courage to put your name on your comments or emails.

I am and have been rather transparent in my blog articles. I have been honest about what I believe about God, the Bible, and local churches. Those of you who read my stuff have been very gracious and I do not take that lightly.

Reading many of your blogs has been both a blessing and encouraging. I look forward to the future with thanksgiving, for I have read the book, and we who are Christ's win!

Grace and Peace,

Royce

Celebrate Recovery

Just moments ago while I was reading Patrick Mead's blog, I recieved a phone call from an old friend. He has been asked to share his testimony this Friday night at Celebrate Recovery at our church.

This wonderful man is a trophy of the grace and love of God. And, he is breathing proof of a congregation who takes seriously Jesus's teaching that we are to forgive as many times as the forgiveness is needed. I will not go into the gory details of this man's sinfulness and often failing. Lets just say that each time he fell, he fell hard, and then he ran back to his forever family, where he found rebuke, encouragement, warm hugs, mixed tears of sadness and joy, and people who had long ago made a decision to love people unconditionally.

Now this guy has a two year history of attending a Bible based 12 step program, becoming a leader in the recovery ministry, attending 6:00 a.m. Bible studies at the home of an elder twice a week, leading druggies and other down and outers to Jesus, and becoming once again a respected business man in our community.

Sadly, in many churches this man would have been rejected after the first public arrest, or surely after the second, but thank God, we are learning to look in the middle of problems for potential, to sort through garbage for grace, and to fill empty souls with hope.

Unless I break a leg or worse, I will be there Friday to see my brother give witness to a living Jesus who is still in the life changing business just as He was over 2000 years ago.

"God so loved the world...."

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

To March or Kneel?

I recently saw on the sidebar of a brother's blog the link, "Abolish Slavery Now". Who would argue against such a noble cause? I am certainly not for slavery. I despise even the thought of one human owning another for his use.

As I clicked away to another site, I remembered Paul and Peter's position on slavery in the Bible. Unless there is something I completely have missed, not one word against slavery! With images of the civil rights marches etched permanently in my mind, I try to reconcile the 1st century reality of the Roman Empire, the Apostles appraisal of slavery, and my personal template formed by my teen years in the segregated South of the United States in the 1950's and '60's.

Do we perhaps go about social change in the wrong way? Is there a better way than protests, marches, and being active in political races? Ephesians 6:5,9, Colossians 3:22 & 4:1, 1 Timothy 6:1,2, Titus 2:9, and 1 Peter 2:18 all lead to the same conclusion. Real change is from the inside out, not the reverse. It is clear that genuine emancipation comes from within and makes a man really free; free from sin's hold, free to love unconditionally, and free to forgive freely.

If a servant in Peter's scope of ministry was to "be submissive to your (his) masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh" (1 Peter 2:18), how will I justify marching up Pennsylvania Ave in Washington with a sign demanding my "rights"?

I can find no instance where Jesus even hinted at social change except for the effect a changed life has on a watching world. "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him". Those words offer only strong rebuke to one who has been far too outspoken, far too passionate for social and political change, and far too little affected by He who abides in me.

A kneeling Christian gets more done than a marching Christian.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

GOD EVEN KNOWS OUR NAMES

One men in the coC that I most admire is Edward Fudge. He is a writer, preacher, thinker, and freind. I enjoy his writing style and find common ground on most of his teaching. Today I read the following article about an experience Bro' Fudge had, and with his permission I share it with you.


GOD EVEN KNOWS OUR NAMES
Edward Fudge
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It is Sunday, November 17, 1996, approximately 4:20 in the evening. I have taught and preached this weekend at a little church in the southern Arizona desert, and the Tucson traffic has almost made me miss the plane home. I rush to check in at the American Airline ticket counter, then run -- as fast as my stubby, out-of-shape body can travel -- to the departure gate marked "Dallas." I appear to be about the last person boarding. I find my aisle seat on the two-passenger side and fasten in. The flight is about 2-1/2 hours to Dallas, where I will change planes for a 45-minute jump down to Houston.

The lady beside me is wearing jeans, but her hair, jewelry and manner suggest that she is a business or professional woman. She appears to be of comfortable means. I wonder if she is Jewish. (Later, I learn that she is not. I am certainly no accurate analyzer of strangers.) As I sit down, she is dozing. Occasionally she opens her eyes and looks out the window, but she shows no interest in talking so I say nothing to her.

Shortly our big jet takes off and soon we are flying northeast at about 30,000 feet. I take out my book for this trip, a new volume by former Dallas Theological Seminary professor Jack Deere, entitled "Surprised by the Voice of God." As I resume reading, the author is discussing God's revealing a word or phrase at times to his children which they would not otherwise know, but which will open doors and add weight to their ministry to some specific individual to whom the word or phrase is very meaningful. I am fascinated at the notion.

Silently, I ask God to give me a word or phrase which will be significant to the lady beside me if I can encourage her or help her in any way. Immediately, the name "Karen" comes to my mind -- with considerable force. My neighbor is not wearing any initial jewelry and she does not resemble anyone I know by that name. Still the thought persists. "Karen."

"Is that her name?" I ask myself. How awesome it would be, I reflect, if God has given me her name. But what if I have merely imagined it? Do I dare say anything to her? If I am wrong, she will surely think this is an unusual "line."

I argue back and forth with myself for a half-hour, perhaps 45 minutes, as I continue to read, glimpsing at my neighbor periodically, neither of us saying anything or making eye contact. Should I say something to her or not? What will she think? Would it be presumptuous? But what if God HAS told me this name? If, because of fear or timidity, I do not say something to her, I will never know.

About an hour-and-a-half into the flight -- no words yet spoken between us, we fly over Abilene's lights far below. She has opened her eyes and is looking out the window. Finally I speak."There's a city," I say. "It must be Abilene." She replies, "Yes."

"I have a daughter who lives there and teaches elementary music," I add. She smiles and says, "You had better tell her hello." I wave toward the window and say, "Hello, Melanie!" Screwing up my courage, I blurt out, "Your name wouldn't happen to be Karen, would it?" Obviously startled, she looks directly at me for the first time. "As a matter of fact," she replies, "it is."

"I am a Houston lawyer and a Bible teacher," I tell her. "I have been out in the desert preaching at a little church. And I was just sitting here reading a book about learning to hear God's voice. I asked God, that if he wanted me to encourage you, to tell me something about you, and the name 'Karen' came to mind. Do you need any encouragement in any area of your life?"

"Not that I can think of," she responds. "Actually, things are going very well for me right now. I have just visited my daughter and her family in Tucson. Her name is Karen also."

We continue to converse all the way to Dallas -- not surprisingly, about God. Karen is Lutheran by birth, attends a Baptist church, and is very committed personally to the Lord. A single breadwinner and young grandmother, she represents a Los Angeles company whose cosmetic products she merchandises to grocery chains throughout the state of Texas. As we talk about God's faithfulness and power, she confides, "I don't know how I could make it through life without God. I depend on him in every part of my life."

We descend into Dallas. I give her a copy of my little book, "Beyond the Sacred Page," and invite her to visit our congregation if she is in Houston on a Sunday. We part, both laughing with joy at what has happened, and marvelling at the God who loves each of us so intimately -- the heavenly Father who even knows our names.*
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*John 10:3; Isa. 43:1; Ex. 33:17; 1 Kings 13:2; Isa. 45:1-7; Lk. 1:13; Matt. 1:21).


"Copyright by Edward Fudge and reprinted by permission."

Marathon Man

Instant coffee, instant grits, microwave popcorn, and super fast broad band internet, are all indicative of a people who are accustomed to having what they want NOW!

Christian book stores are filled to the brim with book after book written for an audience looking desperately for a “quick fix” to cure spiritual immaturity. Savvy marketers use attention grabbing words like “New”, “Improved”, “Supersized”, etc to draw super market shoppers to their products. We in America are conditioned to be impatient, to want instant gratification, and over night success.

Church folks, just like the world, go from one fad to another. A spiritual hula hoop comes along, everyone gets one, and then when the newness is gone we go searching for another. I can’t remember how many seminars I have attended in local churches focused on discovering and using spiritual gifts and I didn’t notice my life, or my friend’s lives changing one iota.

The writer of Hebrews characterizes the live of a believer as a marathon, not a hundred yard dash! Hebrews 1:1-2 “Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

The picture given is of a runner clothed only in a loin cloth running a marathon with steady patience and endurance thinking only of the finish line and the reward for finishing well.

Jesus is our example. For 3 1/2 years He faithfully taught, preached, warned, corrected, healed, did miracles, and all the time was despised, rejected, hated, scorned, and finally killed by His own people. Yet, He never veered to the right or to the left, but kept on course for the future glory that awaited Him at the Father’s right hand.

We must, like Jesus, not become encumbered with the love of wealth, success, and “things” as we live our lives. And, unlike Jesus, we must forsake the sins that take us off course. It is the hardly noticeable sins that are the most likely to hinder.

Just as a marathon man in the 1st Century would strip off completely everything possible that might hinder the run, we too must pattern ourselves after Jesus who “humbled Himself” by stripping Himself of His place of glory and "learned obedience by the things He suffered".

Is it houses and land, friends and family, sports or even church activity? What is it that you and I need to lay aside so that we can run effectively?

Not only do we need to lighten the load, we need to be patient as we endure the months and years of our race. There is no “quick fix” to spiritual maturity. Further in the same chapter we are reminded that chastisement will be involved along the way. The idea is all that is involved in child rearing, including the trips “out behind the barn” for the rod of correction.

Only those believers who are fixed on the goal and are well equipped with patience will be able to keep running well. We must remember that Jesus is the author and completer of our faith. He is literally running with us and empowering us if we do not get ahead or lag behind. Patiently enduring enables us to make steady progress and to run and not faint.

How’s your marathon going?

Got Worship?

Over the last several decades I have witnessed phenomena in the churches that I have been a part of and ones I have observed through broadcast media and print. There has been a paradigm shift away from worship to a certain sort of activity passed off as worship.

“Worship leaders”, “worship teams”, and “worship music” are fairly recent terms that are now as common as pews and pulpits. There is nothing inherently wrong with any of these. I question though, just how much they contribute to genuine worship of the Almighty God of the Bible.

In today’s Christian world, worship has been defined as some particular activity that takes place primarily on Sunday morning before the preacher delivers his message. That activity is singing. And, worship has been more narrowly defined as not only just singing, but singing only a certain kind of music, “worship music”, or “praise and worship” music. So the implication is that if you are singing “worship” music you are worshipping. That is foreign to the Bible. Am I to believe that none of Charles Wesley’s songs, Fanny Crosby’s songs, or any of the old hymns were ever used in worship?

The dead give away that this so called worship might be bogus, is the way most of the so called worshippers critique the so called worship. Comments usually follow along this line of thought. “We had a great worship service this morning. The music was so beautiful!” Or, some of our more uninhibited friends might say, “Worship was great today, you could really feel the Spirit in the service”. When worship is measured by the experience or the skill of the human participants, I promise you it is not Biblical worship.

Worship is not something to be experienced, but something given to God. Worship is not about me and you, but rather about God. Jesus said to the woman of Samaria that worship is to be done “in Spirit and in truth”. I fear that we as believers in modern times have not faired well in the “truth” department of worship.

Worship is first and foremost about surrender. I can be bold to say that a person who has hardly given God a thought all week long is not likely to worship on Sunday morning. He or she might go through the motions, sing the songs, or even lead the songs, but in the end, not have worshipped. Paul in Romans 12:1-2 gives some great insight into the real meaning and method of true worship.

My paraphrase goes like this. “I beg you brothers, in view of the fact that God did not condemn you to hell as you and I deserve, but has shown us mercy; Present the whole of who you are to God as a living sacrifice. Surrender yourselves completely to God for His pleasure and purpose. This dying to self in complete surrender to God for his use, is not unreasonable in view of His mercy, but is rather, “reasonable worship”. And, don’t be conformed to this culture, but rather be transformed by having your thinking made new by the word of God.”

Being “transformed by the renewing of your mind..” speaks again to the “truth” part of the equation of the elements of worship. It doesn’t matter how spiritual you might feel after doing a religious exercise, unless you have conformed your activity to the truth of the word of God you have not worshipped.

Not only is worship about surrender, it must be God centered and not people centered. Worship is akin to faith. Faith is vain and useless unless it is directed toward the right object. The strength or measure of faith is not nearly as important as the object of our faith, the Lord Jesus. Worship is exactly the same. Unless the object of our worship is God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, our worship isn’t worship, it is religion.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

"There for I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence; For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior."
(1 Timothy 2:1-3 NKJV)

"Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For the is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

Therefore whoever resists the authority resist the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.

For he is God's minister to your for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience sake."
(Romans 13:1-5 NKJV)

PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS

Agree. However, I want to be quick to say that I agree with the 5th point of Calvinist because of my belief in the Perseverance of the Holy Spirit. Yes, the child of God will persevere but only because of the predetermination of a sovereign God. As I have previously written, all of those whom God calls He justified, and all of those whom He justified, He glorified. The final step in the process of salvation, glorification, is the point of this post. How is it that the "wicked sinner" (God's characterization of the lost, not mine) gets from "wicked" to "blameless"? The subject of this study is not focused on the "how?" of this incredible journey to glorification, but rather is focused on "how many?"

I could post dozens of pages of Bible verses that prove up my belief that every person saved will make the trip to final glory when at the resurrection the saved are resurrected to life everlasting and those saved who are alive will be instantly changed and the mortal (flesh) will put on immortality. We shall then be "like Him", sinless, blameless, in a glorified body, and there in His presence forever more. It is only then that our salvation is complete.

This is an important piece of the puzzle and if misunderstood, leads to many errors and false teaching concerning the doctrine of soteriology, which is a technical term for the study of how a poor sinner can take advantage of the atonement provided by the life and death and life of Jesus. For all of those of us who have saving faith in Jesus we are presently saved.

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  So first, we are saved from the penalty of sin. "For by grace you have been saved, through faith". "Therefore, having been justified by faith". There is a moment in time when we "believed God and it was counted to us as righteousness" just as our father in the faith Abraham. The result is that we have been given the right to be called "sons of God" because we have "received" Jesus as Savior. Our previous condition was spiritual death but our present condition is spiritual life. And, that life is eternal.
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  Secondly, we are being saved from the power of sin through a process called "sanctification" in the seminary class room. God, by the agency of the Holy Spirit, is at work in us and on us to conform us to the likeness of Jesus. His presence in us provides us the absolute power to overcome sin. And, the work of the Holy Spirit produces in us the "fruit of the Spirit" and pours out into our hearts the love of God. The gift of God's love and the fruit of the Spirit are nothing less than the character of Christ being formed in us. We move through the process of sanctification at different rates of speed depending on our exposure to the truth of the Bible and our willingness to fully surrender to the will of God for our lives.
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  Thirdly, we will be saved from the presence of sin. When finally God's mission of redemption is complete and everyone who was called by God has been justified, Jesus will come and the believers both physically dead and alive will be changed in the "twinkle of an eye", sin and its effects will be history. Our salvation will be complete! Not one of God's children will be left out and not one of us can say that we had any part whatsoever in our completed transformation from "wicked sinner" to glorified child of God. We will be put on display so that every created thing can see the glory of God. Even the earth will be reclaimed and changed to its pre-sin cursed condition. The curse of sin will be finally broken.
  
  This is the process of salvation. Saved, being saved, and finally completely saved.
  
  I contend that every person whom God determines should begin this process, will finally complete it. In the strongest terms possible I disavow the terminology "Perseverance of the Saints" and instead hold up the doctrine of the "Perseverance of the Holy Spirit". I might be accused of splitting hairs because the end of the teaching is the same. I only believe it is right to focus on the work of God by the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer, rather than to leave the tiniest hint that the believer can make this journey on his own.
  
  I am well aware of objections to my position. I can already see the first comment posted by someone who is horrified that I believe the Baptist doctrine of "Once saved, always saved". In our coC brotherhood, it is a rare bird who openly professes belief in such an unacceptable doctrine.
  
  I will state in terms that can not possibly be misunderstood my position. With every fiber of my being I believe in the perseverance of the Holy Spirit, eternal security, and that once saved you will always be saved.
  
  This is not subject matter that I have recently become familiar with. When I came to Christ as a fifteen year old boy in the hills of North Carolina, my understanding of the gospel was simple. I had a sin problem. Christ had fixed the sin problem and stood ready to forgive my sins and make me His. I understood the promise of the gospel to be eternal life with Christ. I trusted Christ the best I knew how based on those elementary facts.
  
  In the ensuing years I was confronted by a strongly held belief that Christians could loose their salvation. This came from Freewill Baptists and Pentecostal family members who worshipped at the Church of God. I was shocked at such an idea! If what they were saying was true, one of two things was not true. Either my sin problem was not really solved, or worse, I could not believe the promises of Jesus that I had read over and over scores of times in the gospel of John. I was driven to the pages of my King James Bible and I poured over its pages for months and could find nothing but the grace of a loving God who Himself had provided ALL of the necessary elements of salvation and His promise of eternal life was good. That was about 45 years ago. After hearing every possible objection, being rejected by my own father for believing such a lie, and seeing most of the believing world flatly reject my belief in the eternal security of the believer, I still happily maintain that firm conviction in my heart. Furthermore, I contend that if it is not so, none of us will make it to heaven.
  
  Salvation is of the Lord. That simple statement is either true or it is not. Either man contributes to his salvation or he does not. There is no gray area here. It is a black and white, yea or nea doctrine.
  
  The following Bible passages are given here for the consideration of the reader.
  
  "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."(Jn. 10:27-28).
  
  "And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:26)
  
  "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him" (Ro. 5:9)
  
  "Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees" (Ro. 8:23-24)

"who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself."(Ph. 3:21).

" And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro. 8:28-29).

"What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against GodÂ’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Ro. 8:31-39).

"who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Co. 1:8)

"being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ"(Ph. 1:6)

"For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory."(Col. 3:3-4)

"and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come." (1 Th. 1:10)

"For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ"(1 Th. 5:9)

"And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance." (He. 9:15)

"to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you" (1 Pe. 1:4)

These are only a few of the wonderful passages from the Bible that teach our safety in Christ. In addition to these great and precious promises, I invite you to carefully read Jesus' great prayer in John 17. As I read those words where He said "I pray also for those who will believe because of their witness.."I know He was praying for me.

So we can say, Halleluiah what a Savior!, With confidence now, and the promise of a certain future. "Jesus paid it all, all to Him I owe."

Your comments are welcome.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle


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IRRESISTIBLE GRACE

My first impulse is to completely disagree. Then on the other hand I hear Jesus say in John 6:44, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." This is one of the proof texts for Calvinists. Those who believe strongly in "free will" would then argue that while God does call everyone who is saved, not all who are called respond positively to the call.

However, I must go to the word of God and when I do I read Paul's words in Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified". Here it is made plain that all of those who were predestined were called and all of those who were called were justified. And in John 1:13 after saying that those who believed were given the right to become children of God, John says of them, "who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I think of the Apostle Paul who was anything but a "seeker". He was a well educated Jew, well versed in the Jewish religion, and was working as hard as possible to imprison those who believed Jesus was the Messiah. Jesus himself showed up and said to Paul, "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" (Acts 9:4b-5) Is there any doubt that Jesus tracked Saul down and did a work of grace on him and he became a mighty apostle for Christ?

I think of myself, at 15 years of age in the hills of North Carolina, I had no appetite for the things of God. I was interested in the things all the other boys my age were interested in. But suddenly, in the matter of a few days, I became fearful and strangely aware of my sinfulness and God put someone in my life to tell me about Jesus and I was saved. "Not by the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" is my testimony. God called, He convicted, He made the gracious invitation, He granted repentance and faith, and I was born from above by the power of the Holy Spirit. I can only claim that I furnished one sinner. He did the rest.

Irresistible Grace? Absolutely.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

The Lord's Church

What is “The Lord’s church” and how do you recognize it. What sets it apart from other churches? Who are its members?

In church of Christ circles the descriptive phrase, “The Lord’s church”, is common and is most often used to describe the several churches of Christ world wide. And, perhaps sometimes is used to describe the catholic (universal) body of Christ.

It is a descriptive phrase, but it is also sometimes a pejorative term. At times, when a person speaks of “the Lord’s church” it is said with the understanding that all others are decidedly not “The Lord’s church”. There are several criteria used to reach such a conclusion.

There is an interesting hermeneutic at play here which causes well meaning people to reach inaccurate conclusions. The hermeneutic that is employed is extra-biblical rather than biblical. The doctrine of the church has evolved primarily based on the distinctives of churches of Christ rather than from the word of God.

The first of those distinctives is baptism for the remission of sins. It is not my purpose here to argue the merits of water baptism. However, baptism in water for the remission of sins is the primary doctrine that “marks out” churches with Restoration Movement roots. So, the thread of hermeneutic idea begins here and becomes the foundation stone of “The Lord’s church” in the minds of many. Each appraisal of every other church must pass through the prism of water baptism for the remission of sins, and by that standard an opinion is formed as to the validity of that group.

Our more “conservative” brothers (I use this term because it is commonly used, not because it is accurate) use water baptism for the remission of sins as a litmus test and justify sectarianism on that basis. If you hold that only those who have been baptized in water for the remission of sins are Christians, the only logical end of that line of reasoning is that everyone else in the world is lost. There can be no other conclusion.

The second of those distinctives is the name “church of Christ”. Brothers will argue long and loud that “church of Christ” is the only Bible name for the true church. It is amusing to me that 2nd Street, or Airplane Rd., or Crooked Fork, or any other words to describe geography is perfectly acceptable on the sign at the “building". It would be unacceptable to have on the sign names like KJV Only church of Christ, or The New Testament church of Christ, or Grace Church of Christ.

Never mind that “church of God”, “church of the firstborn”, “the way”, “bride of Christ” and “Christian” are every bit as biblical as “church of Christ”. Someone long ago decided that church of Christ was a better name than all the others used in the Bible to describe Christ’s body of believers, and it stuck, and is not up for discussion. It is as much a fact in many folk’s minds as John 3:16.

The third distinctive is singing a cappella. There are some of the Lord’s churches that use the dreaded “instrument”, but they are “liberal”. In the mind of some they are saved but “liberal”, and in the judgment of others they are lost. Again, never mind that the New Testament makes no such demand about the inclusion or exception of musical instruments when the folks are together for worship. This is the way it has been and that is the way it is. You can get brothers more heated in defense of a cappella singing than any other topic, even baptism. Because the Bible does not directly address this issue, almost all of the loudest voices supporting a cappella only rely on history to make their arguments. And often that history is questionable.

Then, depending somewhat on geography, history, and religious education, there are even more distinctives which are not common to all of “The Lord’s churches”. The number of communion cups, the type of fluid in the cups, should it be a cup, or cups, when the cups or cup is passed to others, and who can legally pass the cup or cups from pew to pew? Women can pass it from right to left but not from pew to pew. Sunday school, or no Sunday school, five or six song leaders (praise team) or one, raised hands or hands down, KJV or NIV, clapping of hands or no clapping, paying the preacher or telling him to trust the Lord, joining other congregations to help orphans or not cooperating, steeple on the church building or not?; and the list is overwhelmingly endless and is dependent on the whims of those who make the rules.

Astonishingly, almost all of these issues are so important that one is supposedly authorized to withhold Christian fellowship from anyone who does not comply with them, although they are not in the Bible or even hinted at on its pages.

The next hermeneutical blunder is more subtle. Many of our friends believe that each local church of Christ is exactly the same as the universal body of Christ. If only one person, who is a member of a local church of Christ, at any time in history, was or is unsaved, the theory is blown apart. The fact is that in almost ALL churches on earth there are imposters, actors, hypocrites, and wolves in sheep’s clothing, who are not Christian’s. Not all professors are possessors! (Matthew 7)

The erroneous idea that the churches of Christ on earth are the same as the mystical body of Christ grows out of the belief that baptism in water is synomonous with salvation. Of course it might not be. Once one of our elders asked those who had been baptized more than once to raise their hands and I was shocked to see dozens of people lift their hands. He then admitted that he had been baptized more than once, I believe it was three times, himself. I wonder how many people in our congregation have not made it to the final baptism yet?

The point of this discussion is to point out a simple truth. The body of Christ, composed of all those who have been born again from above by the Spirit of God, does not have one person in it who is unsaved. The same can not be said for certain about any local congregation, no matter what the name on the sign. When a person is baptized in a church of Christ it does not hold true 100% of the time that they have also entered the family of God, the body of Christ. All one must do is to observe the lives of some of those who have been immersed, and if you believe the Bible, their lives scream that they are not saved.

We almost never refer to the time in our life when we came to Christ in any other terms than “I was baptized” or “she was baptized”, etc. We seem to avoid “saved”, “born again”, “trusted Christ”, “received Christ” and even “became a Christian” in favor of a reference to water baptism. It is unfortunate that without doubt many people are depending on that event for their salvation rather than the person of Christ. Salvation is not mechanical. Dipping a person in water does not automatically trip a lever in heaven that compels God to grant forgiveness of sins and eternal life to the one who just got wet. Faith in Christ must accompany water baptism or the baptism is vain and of no effect. I doubt that anyone would argue against that truth, but baptism is continually elevated to a place where it is in competition with Jesus for our trust. This is simply true and very unfortunate.

“The Lord’s church” by definition is not the churches of Christ on earth, but rather those who have been born from above, not by the will of the flesh, or by the will of man, but by the will of God. That number includes those genuine Christians of every stripe and creed, including the churches of Christ, who were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world, Ones who are found in Him not having their own righteousness, but that which is from heaven, which is by faith. They have been purchased by the precious blood of Christ, they have been made partakers of the divine nature, are priests before God, they have an eternal inheritance, are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, are waiting for the Lord from heaven, are members of each other, dependent on each other, and love one another. They are those who love God, their fellow believers, and even their enemies. They have access to the throne of God in prayer, the have the right to address the Creator God as “Daddy, Daddy”, they stand in grace, they have been made alive, they have been translated out of darkness into the kingdom of the Son of His love, they have new hearts, they are God’s workmanship, they are created to do good works. And one day they will be put on display to show the glory of God to the universe when their redemption will finally be complete. They will put off the tent and enter a building not made with hands. They will be like Christ for they shall see Him as he is. And they will finally be at home where there is no sin, no sickness, no sorrow, in a place where the Lord is the light. And they will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

This is “the Lord’s church”, those whom He has called to be his own family. The gates of hell will not prevail against this church. No created thing can ever separate them from God’s love. He spared no expense to save them and make them into the image of Jesus. God the Father loves them as much as He loves Jesus. They are His own possession and He will not loose even one of them ever.

“For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.” (Romans 8:29-30) All of those he forknew he purposed to make like Jesus. All of those He predestined to be like Jesus He called. All of those He called He justified. All of those He justified He glorified. How many? All!

The church is His, He calls, He justifies, He glorifies, and all of those are "the Lord's church".

Your comments are welcome.

Your criticism will be accepted.

Your correction will be considered.

And your condemnation will be tolerated.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

LIMITED ATONEMENT

Disagree: But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." (Isa 53:5-6)

"Behold the LAMB OF GOD, which TAKETH AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD." (John 1:29b).

"For when we were yet without strength, in due time CHRIST DIED FOR THE UNGODLY. " (Romans 5:6)

When Jesus cried from the cross "It is finished" He had paid for the sins of every person of every age. He suffered the full wrath and fury of a Holy God against sin and the sinless one uttered one of the most sorrwful questions of all time, "My God my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Every person who now or will inhabit hell is there with his sins paid for. Precisely the reason that rejecting Christ (unblief) is THE sin that dooms men to hell is that He suffered for them and they have said no to His gracious offer of cleansing from sin and the gift of eternal life.

When John the baptist said "Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world", he did not say "who takes away the sin of part of the world".

The word "limited" as a modifier of the word "atonement" doesn't sit well with my understanding of the nature of God. Will the man who holds to the doctrine of "limited atonement" tell me God loves those for whom the atonement is not available? And He proves His love by His eternal decree that they will suffer in hell forever?

"Whosoever will let him come" is inclusive and this statement alone says to the 5 point Calvinist "Go back and read your Bible again son, you missed who God is".

God's power is not limited, His love is not limited, His grace is not limited, and His atonement for sinners, purchased by the terrible price of His only begotten Son, is not limited either.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION

The doctrine of Unconditional Election was first codified into a summation called a "creed" about 1500 a.d., plus a few years. What does it mean?

In eternity past, God made a decision as to whom He would extend His gracious offer of salvation through Christ and wholly upon Christ's merits and not upon any worthiness of the sinner. And, by necessity, He decided that all the rest of mankind should be forever separated from the Godhead and be punished in hell for their sins. This is admittedly a very simplistic definition, but I believe it conveys the basic elements of the particular doctrine. I invite any corrective comments and will gladly correct any error.

While I make NO claim of being a theologian, I do hold personal views and have long held beliefs formed over my 40 plus years of inquiring into the things of God. So, take my view of this doctrine with that in mind. You, of course have the absolute right to disagree and to have your own formulation of the doctrine as you see it. With that disclaimer out front I submit my beliefs.

I disagree completely! While I do believe in the doctrine of election, I disagree with "Unconditional Election". I believe that before creation God's foreknowledge of all peoples of all ages allowed Him to know who would receive his gracious offer of salvation by grace through faith upon the merits of Christ alone. Given that infinite knowledge He chose some to life and some to death. In my tiny brain this view in no way infringes upon the free will of man, nor does it dilute the sovereignty of God. Every man is still completely free to receive God's graceful offer, or to reject it. God's knowing does not effect the decision of man. And, though man can still exercise free will, his will in no way changes God's predetermination of man's final end because God infinitely knows.

For over 30 years I struggled with the doctrine of election and then one day I read this passage of Scripture. "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." (Romans 8:29-30).

The very essence of God is Love. How could God be infinitely loving and doom some men to hell and others to heaven? John 3:16 states in part, "God so loved the world.." The scope of God's grace is every man. Then 2 Peter 3:9 says, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." I don't see how the Bible could be more plain. It would please God if every person repented and embraced Christ. He does not find pleasure in the loss of one soul. However, He knows each of us and how we will treat the knowledge of Him. Romans 1 teaches that wicked men have chosen to not retain the knowledge of God in their minds.

Finally, those whom God knows will receive His graceful offer, He effectively calls. The Holy Spirit "draws" them to Christ. All of those who are called Jesus said would come, and every one of them will be justified, and every one of them will one day be glorified. Those who have trusted Christ will be put on display for the universe to witness the greatness of God the Father and His Son the Lord Christ. It is not now nor ever shall be about us. He saved us for His glory and for no other reason.

There are dozens of other passages that I could offer to prove up the same truths but in the interest of brevity I will stop here.

Elected? Yes! Unconditionally elected? Absolutely not.

Comments?

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

T.U.L.I.P.

Reformed Theology (Calvinist)

Am I a 5 point Calvinist, a 4 point Calvinist or do I agree with any of the 5 points of Calvin. I will discuss each briefly and try to decide how I fit on the Reformed scale of theological thought.

Where are you? I am curious how much we are alike, or different.

I will address each of these in different posts over the next few days. I will give my views in very simple, easy to understand statements.

Total Depravity

Unconditional Election

Limited Atonement

Irresistible Grace

Perseverance of the Saints
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Total Depravity: This one is easy for me. Absolutely! Sinful men are unable to stop sinning. Paul said of himself "I know that in me, that is in my body, there is no good thing".(Romans 7:18 )"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"(Jer 17:9) "There is none righteous, no not one." (Rom 3:10)

Most of you have children or grand children. May I ask a question? Do you have to teach children to be good or to be bad? I have never heard of anyone having to teach a little child selfishelfesh, to take other kids toys, to then lie about it, and so on. They "naturally" tend toward doing wrong. Original sin? You tell me. David thought so.

Never in the history of civilization has any society had to make rules to keep people from doing so much good. The reverse is true of all men in every century in every ethnic group.

I submit if we were not totally depraved why would we need Jesus? We could simply, with the help of religious training, knock off a few rough edges and be just fine. There is a rather large school of thought that says mankind is basically good and just needs to be understood. I believe mankind is basically wicked and needs Jesus and His righteousness.

Comments?

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle

Saved by Faith

It was necessary to remove the lengthy post of Sept 10th "Saved by Faith". It was far too large for a blog and made loading troublesome.

For the record, I believe it. Thanks to those of you who read it and responded with kind emails or comments on the blog. If anyone cares to read it I can send it as an email attachment.

Grace and Peace,
Royce Ogle